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Regarding the nature and identity of eschatological/end times Israel for further discussion, Stan Feldsine 's comment:

"I'd like to make another point regarding cults.

In the past, I spent some time discussing Mormon beliefs with some Mormons who were willing to have such discussions with me. I was somewhat astounded to find that what they were saying made a lot of sense, and I had to take a step back and regather my thoughts and scriptural understanding. They were quite convincing and I found myself becoming confused as I made a sincere effort to understand just where they were coming from. I knew they were wrong, but I was loosing the confidence in that because they were changing my paradigm.

I think this is the part of the nature of determining to "get to know your enemy" so to speak. In order to effectively talk apples to apples with someone in a cult, you have to understand what they understand, see it the way they do. You have to become a "Mormon" mentally so to speak to think like a Mormon. The experience was something like looking in a mirror, and seeing that everything looks the same, but wait, there are some things that are just reversed, or backwards. The same language and words are used, everything looks the same, but something is amiss, and at first it is very difficult to put your finger on just what that is. Most people never get to this point, but rather debate the easy stuff. I like to get to the source, and find out why that easy stuff is there and how it got there, and go at the argument there. Long Homecoming Dresses 2020

You have to be pretty strong and focused to do this. You have to really know the Bible to identify the subtle differences, and not get swayed by your confusion should that arise. Most people that I know, if placed in a situation like this, will allow their confusion to sway them to the others viewpoint, and they are in serious danger of falling in. They are swayed. Perhaps it is that fear of falling in that keeps people from really getting to know what they other thinks and instead they stay at a distance and keep it superficial. Or maybe it is just laziness.

I think this is the case for HRM people, which as far as I can see is a rapidly growing movement. They are looking at scripture like in a mirror, and it is all backwards and inverted. I believe that when they share their theological underpinnings with those who are searching for a deeper spiritual life, those people are sucked right into it due to the sophistication of the underpinnings, and the truth is, for the biblically illiterate, it doesn't really have to be that sophisticated.

In the same way that there is an apocalyptic genre following, there is a following that is seeking a deeper spiritual relationship, and they are falling for whatever they come across that appeals to them, whether that be Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormon, HRM, various flavors of Christian "religion" and so on. They are following lies because the truth is buried in the mass of lies and can't be easily determined.

The attraction to HRM comes in part from things like mainstream Christianity's changing morality regarding sexual things and the "easy grace" movement that seems to say anything goes, just believe. HRM provides a tangible way to show God we love Him along with the structure to do that in.

The doctrines that convince them that it is biblical, the area that is confusing for the biblically illiterate are:

1) Two House Theology, in particular, the supposition that all Gentile believers are really distant Northern Tribe descendants, and as such, Israelies.

2) Commonwealth Theology, in particular the teaching that no Gentile can enter the commonwealth of Israel unless they are an Israeli, since the Covenant was made with the Northern and Southern tribes alone. We become Israel through grafting into Israel.

3) Expansion / Not Replacement Theology, which teaches that the above doctrines are not replacing Israel, but adding to their number thus expanding Israel.

4) Renewed Covenant, which says that Jer 31:31 has not yet been fulfilled so the Mosaic Law is carried forth, and the coming of the Holy Spirit in power was to enable and help us to keep the Mosaic Law which continues to this day, even though keeping the law does is not for the purpose of salvation.

5) Lordship Salvation, HRM doesn't ascribe to this per se, however, their law keeping mandate is very similar to Lordship Salvation, in that the keeping of law is not for salvation, but rather, to please God and ensure salvation in some way.

I have some succinct information on these topics if you are interested in various well written web articles. Let me know.

These theologies are very convincing. To my way of thinking, these are the pillars upon which HRM stands. If these can be torn down, the all HRM falls. It makes little sense to debate the details, for it is these doctrines that causes the details to be interpreted as in a mirror, backwards and inverted. If you want to change the belief in a detail, you have to prove that they are not Israel. That is key. That is how they get all the Old Testament applied to Gentiles, by turning them into Israelites. If they can do that, then everywhere where it says "And to the Israelites", or "Say to the Israelites", etc. it specifically applies to Gentiles, because they are now Israelites.

I mention all the above because like the apocalyptic genre, where the truth is becoming well hidden in the mass of lies, so too is biblical truth becoming hidden in the mass of lies. It seems to be almost a 1 for 1 correlation between the two differing subjects, and the degree of truth versus lies, and that correlation is interesting in itself."